Spotlighting masc lesbian fashion with TikToker Claire Holt

Rocio Sanchez: Welcome to Transition of Style, the podcast about fashion, identity, and how queer leaders today are disrupting the fashion industry. I’m your host, Rocio Sanchez. Feel free to use any pronouns for me. I’m a digital marketer with a specialization in queer business and fashion. I even wrote a master’s thesis on queer fashion. And that’s why I bring this podcast to you today, because I believe that the LGBT community is no longer a footnote in the fashion industry, and we never were. And today’s guest is an example and proof of that belief that I have. So today we have Claire Holt. Thank you so much for coming.

Claire Holt: Yes. Hi. Thanks so much for having me. I’m excited to talk.

Rocio Sanchez: Yes, of course. So, Claire Holt, please if you will, I love for people to introduce themselves in their own words because it has, their own voice to it. I know you because I’ve seen you on TikTok scrolling, just, you know, on my own free time. Back when I had TikTok, just to be honest. But if you will tell me with your own voice. Who are you? What do you do?

Claire Holt: Yeah, for sure. My name is Claire. I use she/her pronouns, but I’m mostly known from TikTok and Instagram. I do short-form content, specifically queer content and mostly surrounding the topic of outfits. Particularly with my own experience. I’m a lesbian. I’ve been out and proud for several years now, but I like lean more into androgynous and masculine presenting styles. So I make a lot of content surrounding my experience and perspective about that.

Rocio Sanchez: What stood out to me was the fact that you kind of have tutorial-type videos as well. Y ou do different types of videos. What was on my for you page were the specific videos that were like if you want to find your proportions, do this This is how you hem a shirt really easily. So it was actually actionable, practical things. And I’m sure that you learn these things just from your own journey. And which is what I would love to hear today, which is what is your particular style and queer journey? Because for you specifically, there is such a connection.

Claire Holt: Y es. Yeah. So there is a connection. I guess everything started with coming out as queer. I came out when I got to college, my freshman year. Like I went to a school completely far away from where I grew up and stuff. So I felt like that was my chance to rebrand. I’m out and proud. I had been kind of out in a soft way when I was living at home. But anyways, that’s when I was out and proud. And that came first. And then afterwards came my kind of style revolution, identifying how I personally want it to look. And I love talking about the two distinct kind of coming outs. Because it’s like, lesbian is phase one. And then phase two is like, okay, well, how do I want to dress? And then I come to the point where I’m like, I’m wearing mostly men’s wear. Like that’s what makes me feel super comfortable. So now we’re getting into the masc lesbian. And so not only is it coming out amongst my community, but also like being visibly gay and like what that feels like to be seen like that all the time.

Claire Holt: So as I was grappling that I slowly figured things out. And as a lot of people, like it was not, it was a lot of trial and error and it wasn’t cute. There’s times where I look back and I was like, uh. Nonetheless, I think a lot of trial and error and a lot of pulling from inspo from all kinds of different sources kind of got me to my style now. Which I would describe as mostly menswear and, kind of fun and young, like there’s some streetwear elements, but it’s really. Simple, basic, classic looks. Like I’ve got this sweater on, I’m wearing, I wear a lot of sweaters. I wear a lot of button-downs. To me, what I’ve learned to focus on is like how the clothes fit your body and how the outfit goes together, as opposed to, Oh, I’m collecting all of these different prints on shirts or, like, it’s not about the quantity, it’s about the fit. So that’s kind of how I look at shopping now and how it’s changed.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah, that’s a massive, concern for a lot of people, and even a lot of queer folks, even if they don’t have the vocabulary for it, right? Of course, there’s so many different lived experiences. But like, for example, like, maybe a trans person has this gender dysphoria, and, there’s a lot of things that they could do about that. But having a shirt that fits in a way that they feel comfortable to walk out the door, like that changes the whole game. You mentioned that, you grew up in the South. So how was that influence and then breaking out of that and deconstructing that in your own brain?

Claire Holt: It’s hard because I didn’t have queer adult role models in my life. I didn’t have a lot of queer peers in my life. Like I felt very isolated at that time and it was very formative and there was a lot, a lot, a lot of effort put into trying to fit into whatever the beauty standards, clothing, like what the girls were wearing in middle school and stuff. It felt so against my natural inclinations and nature. When I look back at it now, I’m not angry, but I am just like, Oh, I knew there was another option, I would have had less time feeling out of place. That informed a lot of my content that I make now. And when I started on TikTok, like a part of the reason I was able to like, have the guts to get on there and then also be posting, posting, posting at that time was because of how isolated I felt. I feel like that’s…the worst thing about being queer at times is how you feel like the only one in so many circumstances. I, when I got to college, I realized like, this isn’t the case. Like we, everyone thinks that they’re silently going through this thing where they want to wear men’s clothes or whatever it may be, but a lot of people are going through this privately.

Claire Holt: And I’m like, I felt so strongly about bringing that discussion to light because people so desperately wanted some kind of guidance. I mean, as a queer person, like, I hate to say it, but at that time in particular, I wanted to be like perceived as someone who was like, cool. Not only cool, but like attractive and well dressed. And because I was queer, it was almost more important to me that she’s gay, but she’s, you know, she’s cute. Like she’s put together. Like I wanted to control the controllables, which is almost futile to think about now. But at that point, it mattered so much to me. And so with my background, with being from the South, obviously there’s a lot of, like religious undertones that come with being from the deep South. So, a lot of church and that was a whole other thing to unpack with my coming out story. But all of that kind of put me here today to get really fired up into talking about and then leaning even further into my own androgynous look and like, I don’t care what you think. My threshold for not caring what people think has just slowly increased. So that’s kind of like my, my main message now.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah, we don’t have to unpack everything, because we only have so much time, and the girls who get it, get it, and the girls who don’t, don’t. You know what I mean? Like, who doesn’t have religious trauma at this point, you know? Especially with queer folks. So, that’s a whole other discussion. But, you know, glad that you sprinkled that in there, because it’s, unfortunately, like a common, part of our collective story. But, back to what you were saying about, bringing it to light that you’re not the only one out there doing it. Like a lot of people internalize it, you know, college is a lot the time the first exposure to people outside of our immediate culture, right? Like we go to school in a town or a city and that’s the culture that we’re in. And then you go to a college where more international people come, people from of state or people from other places, even just other places in your state. And so my, question to you is, is that why you think people connect to your content?

Claire Holt: No doubt. Also just any kind of like positive queer representation, I think people uniquely like latch onto that. Specifically, like, from my perspective as being more masculine presenting, like that has this element of being visibly gay. And I don’t know, it’s kind of a unique thing. Not all queer people it, you know, of course everyone has different experiences. But I think they can see me more easily and in a lot of ways, relate to me quickly just by looking at me, for some people. So that’s why I feel like it’s uniquely will capture people’s attention just by the way I look. And TikTok and content in general has this like wonderful aspect to it of like, you can find your people that you could have never found in your immediate close group of friends, maybe in your school, in your hometown, like you can find people that look like you have the same experiences and stuff as you, and once I found a few of those people who was like, Claire, I relate on this, this, and this. It was like, I cracked the code and I was like, Oh my God, this happened to everyone and we relate on it. And it felt something deeply like healing and comforting about knowing the way people relate to it, really. So I feel like that’s why people connect to it uniquely. And also you don’t see queer people all the time, so it’s just harder to find. And that’s easier to like be emotionally invested in.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah. We’re shifting, we’re pivoting a little bit. We’re going to go into the business side of things. Cause I know that you’re excited to talk about this. And particularly your experience as a TikToker, right? And, uh, you call yourself an influencer. I’d call you an influencer. What is that experience like? When was that moment where you decided, Oh, Tik Tok is like it. Was it like your first brand deal? When you were like, I’m gonna start making some money from this. Cause I understand that you also have like a job as well. So. what’s the balance for you? What does it look like?

Claire Holt: Yeah. I mean, it started purely as just for fun on TikTok. I’m posting twice a day in college from my dorm room. And it was kind of like, emotionally rewarding to connect with other people and like share this unique experience that I realized was not so unique, ike I was saying before. That was the reward for me. That was fun. And then I was surprised with how well it connected with people. And once I kind of got that feedback, I was like, Oh, this is like. This is really important work to me. Like, this is my unique perspective for the world. Like not everyone can do this, can talk about this, can relate to people like this, are willing to post their face and voice talking like this. So in that way, I was like, Oh, I feel intrinsically motivated at that point. And then, after my account grew further and I did start making money off of it, it was like, it was cool. That was really exciting. Especially when I get to work with the brands I loved, like. Or brands who work specifically for queer people like me, like that really was so rewarding because I wanted them to win too.

Claire Holt: It was like a win win. I work full-time as a software developer, which is cool and all, but it’s definitely more my passion to make content and stuff. So I’m trying to keep it light, keep it fun, but it has become more and more business over time. And I signed to an agency who has helped me a lot with that. And they managed to come up with a back and forth in like the terms of deals and outreach, which was where, kind of a pivotal point was where it went from no agency to people are reaching out and I’m signing contracts with people. That’s when it kind of got real for me. I mean, it’s still a part-time job, but it feels like I’m putting as much effort into it when I’m done with my workday part time job would really be.

Rocio Sanchez: That is really insightful, particularly the contract part of it. Right. Because influencer world is relatively new compared to other things.[00:11:59] And I’ve heard stories, like horror stories, about influencers getting taken advantage of. Or brands, even the other way around, like brands, not having clear terms with their influencers and then the influencers like get all this product, but don’t do anything about it. Y ou know, it’s like, it’s all about the terms. It’s all about the terms. Is it written down? Is it signed? And then that becomes a little bit weird. But I imagine that if you want to continue doing this, you want it to be sustainable. And in order for it to be sustainable for yourself or your life, for your routine, having terms is important. Would you say that?

Claire Holt: Ahh I’m so glad we brought this up because the way that my agency has helped me, totally impacted my content career in a good way. Because I like to make the ideas. I like to do the creative work. There was a point where I didn’t have management and I was like emailing back and forth with brands. And the trouble is number one time commitment. Two, keeping on top of email threads is like not my strong suit. And I also have a job. So I’m like, I don’t have time for this. And three, in terms of like pay transparency, I wasn’t sure what I should be charging people for paid content. And my management was able, they have a host of influencers on their roster. So they have a feel for what industry standards are. So that was huge for me. And then also like. When you’re a content creator, like you’re trying to make your stuff. You’re not trying to like, you feel a little awkward advocating for yourself in terms of pay and terms. But when it’s like someone else is doing it for me, it took that awkwardness out of it and it was a huge help. Saved me so much time. And so much emotional labor of like, how do I say this? Right. And then there’s weird, like legal and tax implications that come with making money to a certain extent. So they helped me with that. I had to get my business hat on and learn how stuff works, but they really helped me. I think I lucked out though, because it’s not the case that everyone has a great experience with their management.

Rocio Sanchez: And there might be some people who are more inclined to get their hands dirty in the business stuff. Maybe even make a mistake or two. For me, it’s like, I want to understand how to keep my books and I want to do it well, you know, and there’s a learning curve there. Let’s shout out your agency. What’s your agency’s name?

Claire Holt: Yes. I was just thinking that, it’s The Actors Group. They’re based out of Seattle. They host a roster of queers, influencers specifically. My manager she’s queer too. So obsessed. They’ve helped me so much.

Rocio Sanchez: And to circle back to, again, just like, the queer identity of it all, your own personal style journey being so influenced by that lived experience of being a lesbian. But then also when you go into the business space, this is something that I’ve experienced as well. It’s like, just because someone’s queer and stuff doesn’t mean that you guys are going to like get along and it’s going to be great. And it’s going to be a great business partnership, but there are less hard conversations to talk about. It could save time, you know, and so I imagine that for you it’s like is do you don’t have to explain yourself. Y ou know, imagine if you had lesbophobic manager like that wouldn’t work, right? Like.

Claire Holt: It’s crazy because, something happened to me like a few weeks ago. So often brands, like they’re working with so many influencers. and I do clothing. So sometimes it’ll be the case where it’s like, pick out something from our new arrivals. And I’d worked with a brand like a few weeks ago and they sent me like their new arrivals of like dresses for their like dress collection. It was an oversight on their part. Obviously i’m not wearing i’ve never worn a dress on my content, and without even me getting on that email thread like my manager is advocating is like, okay Yeah, like with Claire, we’re doing the new arrivals for the men’s collection. She had that wrapped up and handled in two seconds, shamelessly. And had that the right link to me because I kind of feel like, Oh yeah, I wear clothes, but it’s men, it’s mostly men’s clothes to be frank. So the brand kind of has to like, understand that. And yeah, I spend less time explaining and she intuitively can advocate for me.

Rocio Sanchez: Anybody listening take from this like either advocate for yourself or train that muscle of advocating for yourself or find and partner up with somebody who can advocate for you. Like, if they wouldn’t advocate for you, then maybe it’s not the right partnership, you know, in this kind of context. So that’s really interesting that you shared that. Cause I’ve talked to other content creators before that I’m not sure they have managers. Like maybe they are their own managers. There’s different paths, you know, but it sounds like for you, this was the right choice and you’ll see what happens from here. So, to move on, right, we’re talking about TikTok. You’re talking about the business aspect of it. Whether it’s the content creation portion of it, the community kind of, portion of it, of, of creating that community and interacting with it, or just even, like, finding inspiration to create your content, anything in and outside of that box.

Rocio Sanchez: What has been your personal challenge, or even opportunity, because a challenge could be an opportunity as well, that you see in this world of queer fashion?

Claire Holt: Well, with specifically queer fashion, I could talk about a few points. One is, I’m recommending brands a lot of the time, some of which I’m wearing on my own body, like an actual outfit, get ready with me. The stuff that works for me does not work for everyone. And when we have such a competition of like, there’s not that many masc lesbian, style inspo. It kind of feels like I can’t be the same inspo for everyone because I don’t have the same body type as everyone. I also can’t recommend certain brands or products over others if they’re looking for a specific look. For example, a comment I get all the time is about, my chest is really flat. People who don’t have flat chest, they have different sizing needs in terms of how stuff fits their body to get the same visual aesthetic shape that I achieved with my outfits. So I think and talk about that, but it’s not my lived experience that much. So I can’t give like detailed practical advice in the same way I can for other people, same with like hips and stuff. And I’m like, you know, you can size up and get a straight leg pan and then you’ll get a belt to cinch the waist.

Claire Holt: Cause your waist is too small, like a different thing than a man’s would be. Anyway, so sizing, I would say, it’s a challenge because when we try to make things very inclusive to everyone and like the clothing is not gendered, and it’s like anyone could wear it, it can get so generic that it’s not flattering for one person or the other. So that’s why I feel like. With brands and with some I worked with, they do a great job with size inclusivity. And then in other ones I recommend and I’ll get like so many comments about being like, they won’t have my size and we can’t do it. For example, I did, I work with Abercrombie several times and I wear their men’s clothes, but I wear, I’m wearing their smallest possible size.

Claire Holt: It’s like an extra small and it’s still kind of big on me and I’m like 5’7, so there are absolutely queer people who are smaller than me who want to wear men’s style clothing or like whatever Abercrombie has or something like that just as an example. And they can’t because the sizing doesn’t go too small. That’s just like one end of the spectrum. There’s other ends where sizing doesn’t go large enough to fit. So sizing and fit is a point that is difficult specifically with queer fashion, because there’s so many different needs. There’s just as many different needs as other realms of fashion. But we’re looking for a specific. I want to say a specific cut, a specific end aesthetic. And in a lot of times we’re trying to use almost like visual fit to affirm like our dysphoria or something like, you know, like you want your shirt to be like a wider cut. So that your hips aren’t hugged in the shirt. So an example like that, we need clothes like that. But there’s as much size diversity as any other population. So it’s hard to fit all of the needs while not being exclusive.And I also think it’s kind of hard to advertise. Cause language feels a little limiting. It’s like, I want to say here are these swim shorts that masc lesbians can wear, but lesbian is too specific. It’s not just lesbians. It’s not just women. It’s everyone in between, it’s non-binary people, but it’s really like non-men. But when I go to say this out loud, the language is limiting and kind of confusing.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah. That’s the limitation of language in general. It’s just that like, we just decide this is the meaning and a group of people say, yeah, that’s the meaning and we are all in agreement. And then there are some things that we’re like, no, actually we’re not in agreement at all about what this means. And that could be so exhausting, especially when you’re just trying to get something out there that helps somebody, you know, and it seems like it helps somebody. And it seems like it helps a lot of people, right? You’ve gotten that feedback that you know that it helps people. But you can’t make everybody happy, of course. And I think that that is the, that’s just an unrealistic expectation for any brand, anybody, listening out there who might want to do that. Not necessarily that you shouldn’t try. It’s nice to, to try. But more so like, I think just a general note is because this is the queer community is just so amazing and uplifting in this world as well that there are other people who do this. Who do do that who, who, I’m sure that there are people and I don’t know off the top of my head and maybe after this conversation, I’ll do some research and find some people who are, you know, in bigger bodies. Who are also like masc of center or they’re really femme and they have all these resources and then just.

Rocio Sanchez: They just need the right spotlight. And so I feel like that’s a fantastic, maybe a content idea for you. If you haven’t done it already, it’s like, I don’t have this body type, but I know somebody who does, you know, something like that. There’s so many opportunities out there. And the queer community is just like amazing. And even if there’s not something like that out there. Maybe somebody who’s listening is listening to you and going like, yeah, I’m not as, as small or skinny or as tall as Claire, but I think I could do what Claire does, and I have a different body.

Claire Holt: It’s so funny. I’ve made a TikTok saying exactly this. Like I feel like there’s such a gap in terms of content creators specifically, Plus size masc fashion. There is a gap. There are people who make content in that space, and like if I could just sit here and have a message with a megaphone, it would be like, make more of it, like make more of it all the time. Make it better, make it more digestible. Like you just got to get out there. So many times people are asking me specific questions that you can only have the answer to from your own lived experience of living in a plus-size body, so I feel kind of weird and phony trying to give advice that specific. Obviously, I have like thoughts in mind because I know people, I’ve styled my friends, like I know something. I would love in that moment to be like, you know who I love? This person. And we can just redirect and everyone have their own lane.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah. Because that’s the downfall of, trying to like, say these like tips, not, for a body that’s not your own, which is just like, that could also just come off as inauthentic.

Claire Holt: Yeah, for sure.

Rocio Sanchez: I mean, you could be like, I’ve styled this friend, this friend has this body type and then maybe get your friends to get in the video. Like, but that’s like maybe a little bit too complicated. Like it might be better to just you know, shout out people who already do that. But if anybody who’s listening, who does that kind of content and wants to be on the podcast, please reach out a @transitionofstyle on Instagram. Because that’s exactly also like. What I would love to see I do know of some, style icons, like queer style icons who are like in bigger bodies and, they’re also like people of color and all that stuff. I’ve seen them on insta, but they don’t do like the tutorial-type videos as far as I’ve seen. So that’s, again, that’s another thing. It’s like, we could see inspo and just like a picture or like a video that has nothing to do with fashion. But like, still, it’s just such a visual medium, you know, so it doesn’t have to be exactly like what you do, but you can get inspo from so many different places.

Claire Holt: Yeah. And I would also compel people to focus on not, a specific brand, this brand, this product, Hey, I’m plus size and I’m wearing this brand of pant. That’s fine. But like, focus on the style. Like why you chose that cut of pant, and what effect it achieved in the look. I feel like that’s what people need. They need help. Learning to style themselves with like stuff they already have. Or like stuff they can thrift easily. And not like I have to go buy exactly ABC. Like you have to teach them like the skills of like putting stuff together. That’s where I feel like content is super helpful to people.

Rocio Sanchez: Absolutely. thank you so much for all the insights because there’s so much we could take from our discussions today. But what I want to know is what is next for you in business, in queer fashion, like are you off to next? Because TikTok can’t be the end point, right?

Claire Holt: So I’m going to stay on TikTok. I like it. I’m on Instagram. I’m growing my Instagram. I’m going to plug at @claire_holt12. If you want to like stalk me on there, but I’m also beginning on Y ouTube. So I’m hoping to do more long-form content, specific to styling, style guides, like my typical niche, but then also expanding into like lifestyle, special topics. I’m just exploring and having fun with long-form content on my Y ouTube channel too.

Rocio Sanchez: Awesome, I’m going to subscribe and, put it on in the background while I’m like, you know, doing some chores and stuff. So I’m excited to see where that goes because that’s also a learning curve, right? Short-form content is different than long-form content. So let’s see how that, how that goes. But I mean, people make it work and it looks awesome. So I’m, I’m sure that you’ll, do awesome on those platforms as well. So, to wrap everything up, you did just plug your Insta @claire_holt12. TikTok is it Claire Holt?

Claire Holt: It’s the same on TikTok and the same on Y ouTube along with Instagram @claire C L A I R E underscore Holt 12. You can find me there everywhere.

Rocio Sanchez: Thank you so much for the conversation today. I’m sure people will be really excited to hear what you have to say.

Claire Holt: Yes. Thank you so much for having me.

Rocio Sanchez: Transition of Style is brought to you by FC Podcasts, a division of Fashion Consort. Learn more about how FC Podcasts can help you with podcasting, from strategy and creation to production and marketing at fcpodcasts.com. That’s fcpodcasts.com. Thank you FC Podcasts, for making Transition of Style possible. Now, back to the show.

Rocio Sanchez: Hello listeners, welcome back to Transition of Style where we bring you stories and from queer leaders disrupting the fashion industry. Let’s spotlight Claire Holt today, a TikTok and Instagram influencer known for her androgynous and masculine presenting style. Claire’s journey offers really helpful advice on work-life balance, selecting collaborators and self-advocacy. Here are three takeaways from our conversation.

Rocio Sanchez: Firstly, work-life balance. Claire Holt balances her full-time job as a software developer with her passion for content creation. Initially, she posted content purely for fun, but as her account grew, it became a significant part of her life. Claire emphasizes the importance of maintaining a balance between her professional responsibilities and her content creation endeavors to prevent burnout and ensure sustainability. So, establish clear boundaries between your work and personal projects. Allocate specific times for content creation and stick to your schedule. Prioritize self-care and ensure you have time to relax and recharge.This balance will help you sustain your passion without overwhelming yourself.

Rocio Sanchez: Secondly, the importance of agency criteria for collaborators. Claire’s collaboration with The Actors Group, an agency that represents many influencers, including queer influencers, has been really helpful in her content creation career. The agency manages her brand deals, negotiates contracts, and ensures she receives fair compensation, allowing Claire to focus on the creative aspects of her work. When selecting collaborators, ensure they understand and respect your identity and values. Look for agencies or partners with experience in your niche and a track record of successful collaborations. Clear communication and shared values will lead to a more productive and harmonious partnership.

Rocio Sanchez: Lastly, which ties into the second point, is to find an advocate to represent you, or learn how to advocate for yourself. Claire’s agency not only handles the business side of her content creation but also advocates for her needs, ensuring brands, understand her style and preferences. This support has helped Claire navigate the business aspects of being an influencer without compromising her creative vision. If possible, partner with an advocate or manager who understands your needs and can represent you effectively. If you’re handling negotiations yourself, invest time in learning how to advocate for your interests and understand your worth. Set clear terms, and don’t be afraid to negotiate to ensure fair treatment and compensation.

Rocio Sanchez: Claire Holt’s journey as a queer content creator highlights the importance of work-life balance, choosing the right collaborators, and effective self-advocacy. By maintaining a healthy balance between her full-time job and content creation, collaborating with agencies that align with her values, and advocating for her needs, Claire has built a successful and fulfilling career. We can all learn something from Claire’s journey.

Rocio Sanchez: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of Transition of Style. This is the last episode of the season, and if you want to hear more updates from this season’s guests and last season’s guests, please subscribe to our newsletter at transitionofstyle.com and follow us on Instagram at @transitionofstyle. I’m Rocio Sanchez. I’m so happy and honored to be your host. Thank you so much.