Tailored for all: Kelly Moffat on Kirrin Finch, inclusivity, and the power of fit

Rocio Sanchez: Hello and welcome to Transition of Style, the podcast all about fashion, identity, and how queer leaders today are disrupting the fashion industry. I’m your host, Rocio Sanchez. Feel free to use any pronouns for me. I am a digital marketer with a specialization in fashion. And I actually wrote a master’s thesis on queer fashion, which is why I bring this entire podcast production to you today. I think it’s very important to highlight the people that are making a change in the fashion industry right now. And one of those people are the people that are on my podcast today, and that is Kelly Moffat.

Kelly Moffat: Thanks so much for having me today.

Rocio Sanchez: Of course, how are you doing today?

Kelly Moffat: I am doing well, although it is very, very chilly out today, uncharacteristically. And so I am looking forward to some warmer

Rocio Sanchez: I can completely understand. I live in Amsterdam and it is raining two-thirds of the year. So yes, I would love to get started and talk about your personal journey. That’s usually how we start on this podcast. We talk about people’s personal journey and then how that brings them to where they are today. So let’s start with your personal journey. How did you come to your own style? What, what is like the origin story of you?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah, absolutely. So when I was young, I can vividly remember being in kindergarten and waking up and having a fight with my mom about how I was going to dress for school. It was this like, Oh, well, all the other little girls were wearing dresses and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, Okay, but somehow deep inside of me, I knew that that wasn’t how I could express myself authentically, even when I was like five years old. Right. So we made this compromise that on Wednesdays I would wear a dress. It was library day, right? Like finding the in-between for all of us and how we navigate our families and parents and presenting yourself through clothing is certainly a journey for many of us there. And so fast forward to kind of freshman year in college.  This like very, meaningful experience where the first time I went into a men’s section and actively was like, okay, I’m going to like buy this pair of jeans from the men’s section. And I was like, I had these jeans in my hands. And I was like, if I’m wearing these from the men’s section, do I like use the men’s dressing room then? Like how did that all play out? And then.

Kelly Moffat: I left college. I started a career in education. And in 2014, my wife Laura and I got married and we quit our jobs for a period of time to go on a traveling adventure. And in that time, we’re like, okay, we have this idea that we want to create clothes that make us feel good. We keep on walking into the men’s section. We like these styles, but they don’t fit our bodies. And neither of us had any background in fashion. She was a pharmaceutical marketer. I was, 2 master’s degrees in education, which has absolutely nothing to do with fashion. But that’s okay. And so then we had this idea and from there, Kirrin Finch was born.

Rocio Sanchez: Awesome. And how do you feel like your own personal style played a role in all of this, right? Like you talked about the wedding, you couldn’t find the fits that worked for you. And so what was the development from there, from the wedding? And did you find something for your wedding? Was it great? Was it amazing?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah. So, we got married and there was certainly that moment of like, okay, what are we going to wear? Right. This big moment that you’re in front of all these people that you care about and love, and it’s super, super important that you’re comfortable, right, in that moment. And so for us, we ended up getting custom suits made and that was, kind of a little bud of an idea of, wow, oh, this can be made for me. And it was such an affirming experience. And so I was really excited about how we’d kind of bottled that up and kind of made it our own and we actually had custom suits made. We decided once we started the company that it was going to be ready to wear. Cause it didn’t feel like that was something that we had the bandwidth and the knowledge at the time to do. But you know, it was just, it was about that experience. And so finding that , those clothes that really made us feel good.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah, yeah, I can imagine. Now you’re here now. So that’s, that’s like an amazing transformation. And I can relate to the feeling of getting like a custom-made suit. Like I got my first one, like a few years ago, and that’s still such a pivotal kind of memory for me. Going in and especially, you know, my personal experience going into a suit store and it was a men’s suit store. I just walked in, you know, but I was lucky to get matched with a tailor who was chill, who was just like, it’s all about the fit. And I understand from my, my researching of your, your company, like fit is really like extremely important. That’s like the USP , right? Like that’s the unique selling proposition. So tell us more about how pivotal is fit to the experience?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah. I think you nailed it on the head. I mean, the reality is there are clothes that exist in the world of what we are making, right? What we are solving for is the fact that they don’t fit us. Right? So like that experience where you go into the men’s section and it was like, ah, this isn’t made for someone that has hips. This isn’t made for someone that has chest. And, there are things that like adjust in everyone’s body. Right? But this is like understanding that for an AFAB body, that these are the pain points of where you’re having this issue with what existed in the marketplace. And then using that knowledge and making adjustments to the fit in order to cater for the existence of those things.

Rocio Sanchez: Of course, of course. I’m thinking back to where we started this, interview. To really encapsulate for the listeners in one sentence, Kirrin Finch is a clothing company that provides blank. Can you fill in the blank for our listeners, please?

Kelly Moffat: I like it. Madlib style. Kirrin Finch makes menswear inspired clothes for women, trans and nonbinary folks.

Rocio Sanchez: Love it. Love it. Thank you. Thank you. That’s our soundbite. That’s our soundbite. And I always love to hear it from, from the guests themselves. Cause they always say it like in a way that’s authentic. So everything that you said, like the origin story, it paints a clear picture of, the philosophy of Kirrin Finch. And I would love to know now, like that is your personal connection to it. And it sounds like, unfortunately for a lot of businesses, the connection of the founder to it is not enough to keep it afloat. So let’s talk about the actual customers. Like, who do you see coming and buying Kirrin Finch clothing and how do they respond to it?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah. I mean, I think one of the things that comes back to me day in and day out of the why behind the brand is really that experience when we get that email from someone that’s like, I’ve never had a place where I felt affirmed. Or I’ve never had a place where I could write an email to customer service and be like, I’m getting top surgery in a month. How is this going to impact how these clothes fit or, all these kind of like super intimate questions for a lot of folks. And being a safe space for that to exist in. I think as a parent, one of the things that is like super impactful for me is when there’s a parent that messages us and it’s like, my kid just came out and I don’t know what to do, but like help.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah, yeah, and, and it’s just a matter of resources, right? And your, your clothing brand is a resource for a lot of people and, and it’s just providing that. So that’s really cool. I imagine that as you were building, the business, like, I feel like a natural consequence of building this business and, and especially if you’re having products is market research. And that’s something that I’ve heard a lot from the other people that I’ve interviewed. How market research kind of looks different in terms of what you’re providing, what products you’re giving out and like who the audience is. But what, did that look like to you if you did it?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah, we definitely did it. So Laura comes from a market research background. So it is, if we didn’t do it, then that’s on us. But I think we, like most folks, approached it from both a quantitative and a qualitative perspective. Everything from sending out surveys and saying like, Hey, we’ve got this idea, but let’s actually verify that other people exist that want this, to going into Cubbyhole. and going and be like, Hey, can I buy you a drink? Will you sit for five minutes and speak to me about these questions that I have? And so really, immersing ourselves in the audience that exists. And making sure that we are providing what they actually need and not making an assumption. And that it doesn’t, like, obviously this is a niche audience. And so there’s very specific needs, but it doesn’t matter what kind of business you’re starting. If you’re not listening to the customer that exists, then that’s just not that smart. That’s bad business.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean all of the business knowledge insights that we learn it absolutely applies to everybody. We’re just niching it down. I mean, yeah, that’s that’s pretty much it and I love the shout out to Cubbyhole.[00:08:53] So shout out to them. If you’re in New York, please hit them up to support them. something that I’ve realized over the years is that you know, you could do market research. Absolutely. And do it by the book quantitative, qualitative, put it in a spreadsheet and all that. But sometimes just like getting the work done, providing that, like that one-on-one experience, that is research in itself, you know. Every client that you have, every person that you talk to, every investor, like that is all information. And so everything can kind of check different boxes. But absolutely by all means do extensive market research.

Kelly Moffat: And I think one of the things that is special about our audience because, and I make an assumption here, but I think it’s a leap that is fair. Like other niche businesses where you’re really serving, not just a need, but truly an emotional need and something that’s like so visceral for these folks. Our customers are so interactive with us, right? Whether it be on social media or through email or, you know, we send out an annual survey every year and like, people want to tell us what they want to see. And truly like we’ve, first of all, we value that so much. And we truly make sure that like, we’re listening to that. And so I think that that is instrumental in, the success that we have seen.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s really, really cool to hear about the story. To pivot back to, we’ve gone from like your personal story of style and the personal story of your union with your wife. Then we go to the customers, but back to like the entrepreneurial side of it, when you were kicking off, you said, this is what we want to do. I imagine, you know, especially for if you’re launching product lines, that you might want to get investment. Is that something that you ended up doing? What was that path looking like?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah. So we actually, didn’t go that route. We started with a Kickstarter, and we were all kind of bootstrapped throughout the process. And so, you know, there’s two very different models of how you want to approach this. And by no means, does that mean that there aren’t variations within those two. But, for us, it was important to kind of really make sure that we had control over, a lot of the decisions because then there are no doubt. There’s even like, there’s, the gayngels, right? There are like specific investors that are focused towards queer businesses. But because that is such in itself, a niche thing, making sure that we were able to grow gradually, right?

Kelly Moffat: Like there was a time when I was literally sharing an Ikea desk on the other half of it with our employee. And we were working in a 10 by 10 space. Right. And so, making sure that we incrementally grew and over time and over time. And now, we have, like a 15 person team. So making sure that we didn’t go too quickly. That was the way we kind of handled it.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah. Intentionality is really important in those big steps of, we want to produce this amount and we need this amount of money and either we go to investment, but the pros and cons of that we have to manage and crowdfunding I imagine you have to manage that as well. Y ou know, because other people that I’ve talked to went down the investor route and they had very unique challenges. Investors just don’t get it or they just don’t understand. So that’s like kind of the cons of it. Like you really have to work harder to be like, these people exist, you know, they deserve to feel just as good or to be fitted just as well with their clothing. So with the Kickstarter, I imagine the people who are, are giving you money are allies and people who get it. On the other hand, what was the, Like struggle, I guess, of Kickstarting?

Kelly Moffat: I mean, I think with all of these models, right, to your point, pros and cons to it all. For us, we used the Kickstarter, one, to help fund that first production run, but also as like a marketing check. And so we launched in 2015. And so, Kickstarter at that point had really kind of taken a turn from where its roots were, which was truly just about like, coming to market with something and funding, whatever that was, where it had kind of already started to become also more of a marketing channel. And so we use that as an opportunity to capture, for the three or four months beforehand, you know, prelaunch capturing people’s information so that we were able to then make sure we made a big splash. And then to use that information from customers to dictate kind of where our sizing was going to be, because that’s something that’s really tricky for fashion. And so as a brand that values size inclusivity as well, we started out 2 to 16 was our sizing. And then from there we have expanded, to 0, we added 18, 20, then we add 22, 24. And now we run, not all of our products, but we’re working on that incrementally, extra small to five XL. And so, you know, we are still a relatively small brand in this game, of the world. And so making sure that you’re getting the numbers right there is really important. So you’re not sitting on a lot of inventory as, ind of, you move through the seasons.

Rocio Sanchez: That’s definitely insightful because it goes back to the point of like, everything could be market research. And just like this was not just crowdfunding and kickstarting or whatever you want to call it. But also market research, but also marketing in and of itself. And like, it just is, so it’s just what can one activity, what else can it do for you? And I think that’s really helpful, especially when you have a small business or you’re running a business or you have a business. It’s, it just feels like you’re being pulled in all different directions. So, can you kill two birds with one stone? that’s yeah.

Kelly Moffat: Or three!

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah or three! Y ou know, or more, you know, if you can. So that’s really cool. Thanks for sharing that insight. One of the questions that I ask people is more of a general term of what do you think your biggest struggle is as specifically a queer leader in fashion? If you feel like that is something that you have experienced.

Kelly Moffat: I actually think that there are lots of amazing things about being a queer leader in fashion. And there’s some like very, more generic things. Like there are press opportunities and, a whole bunch of like loaded feelings around things like pride. But it also does give opportunities, which is great as where are like, exploring as a society, how do we be more inclusive to folks that we cater to from an audience perspective? So I think that there’s that. I think there’s also a unique relationship with our customers. And so that is special, right? We’re not just like making shirts. We are solving a problem about how to express yourself authentically. And so that for me, from a marketing perspective, anytime you’re tapping into someone’s emotions, you are going to create a product that is far more powerful and ultimately, a better thing to market to people if you can tap into, into that emotion. And so I actually think it’s part of what makes me really love my job. And like watching our team get excited about when we can like fulfill that, you know, need for folks. That’s what gets me jazzed.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah. Yeah. And I’m happy that you turned it into the positive, right? I’ve been thinking about, I’ve been rethinking that question. Like I’m always talking about the struggles, but like we don’t have to, there’s a lot of upside to it. Of course there’s always going to be pros and cons to every journey. So, yeah, no, but that’s, that’s really cool. What resources have, have helped you as a business owner, as a career business owner, you mentioned gayngels earlier, that’s been shouted out before. NGLCC has been shouted out before. Do you have any other resources that has helped you in your journey, whether that’s on like a small scale or larger network scale?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah. So I think one of the things that’s, exists within the U.S. that some, folks basically have any business can tap into, which is Score. Which is a mentorship program, which is free. That it’s, often people that are like retired from business, but they’re willing to mentorship. And so that was something that we tapped into early on, which was really helpful as, you know, you’re doing things like writing your business plan or like, okay, I don’t know, should I be an LLC or an S corp?  Like all those kinds of like things that like, you know, absolutely nothing about, and every decision is this like massive decision, but like you have to like do hours and hours of research to even like have the like conversation in an accurate way. So I would definitely recommend that. There’s also like from a fashion perspective, there are some interesting places like Maker’s Row is a good website for people that are starting out manufacturing, I think is a really good space to like, learn what it means to like manufacture things either domestically or just like, what is the process feel and, what to expect.

Kelly Moffat: We’ve also tapped into a variety of resources. We exist in a place called the Brooklyn Navy Yard, which is based in New York City. It’s actually owned by the city, but there’s a variety of different resource groups that we have tapped into. And one, was a, a resource group that was called Moving Past a Million. Which was different businesses. For like an eight month period, we were meeting weekly and it was both emotionally supportive. It tapped into like, how do you tackle business finances? Like all of these things, ultimately it doesn’t matter, right? These are the ones that, were existing in the sphere of where we are physically located, the boxes that we tick, right? Like I identify as a woman, like their access to things like that. As a result of that. As queer, right? All of those things. But oftentimes mentorship groups are focused on like a specific group of people that is just like how they are established.

Kelly Moffat: The point that I would make is no matter what resource group feels right to you, is that it is invaluable to join them. We’ve been in business for over eight years, right? We have been variety of them throughout each stage. And how incredibly important is, especially as a founder, to have that emotional support, to have that resource support, to be able to like move the business forward in all the different ways that it needs to happen.

Rocio Sanchez: Yeah, that’s definitely helpful because a lot of people take for granted resources that are already there, or maybe it’s a matter of there are so many resources that you don’t even know where to start. So just as you said, those were ones that you listed out and I’m going to definitely write them down later and put them in the blog post that goes with this podcast. Those are the ones that existed when you were starting out. They probably still do exist. There’s the NGLCC, there’s local LGBT chambers of commerce. So check that out. There are some propping up in Europe. Those are picking up too. and something else that I think is worth mentioning for anybody listening. If you’ve gone to like a college, some of them have mentorship programs. Y ou know, I went to F.I.T. And Parsons and both of them have mentorship programs with alumni. Or Alumni with other alumni that are like older, like 20 years of experience or something like that. And of course some people don’t have connections to school like that.

Rocio Sanchez: Maybe you’ve only gone two years, didn’t finish school. Sometimes alumni institutions will let you in on the resources, even if you didn’t graduate. If you talk to the right people on LinkedIn, you know, just resources, resources, resources, not just school, but chambers of commerce, all those other things. So that’s really cool. Thank you so much for, for sharing. you have any, any final thoughts before?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah. The one other thing that I would add to there is the SBA, the small business association is another really great one. And I think what isimportant to realize is that so many of these especially within the U.S. are free. How much free advice that you can get, especially in that beginning stages. Like, you know, you don’t need to go to some fancy expensive accelerator program. And hat doesn’t mean that those aren’t powerful and they exist and that’s great. But like start there to like workshop out some of the stuff initially and then decide what’s right for you. I think that starting a business is really hard.

Kelly Moffat: I think the one thing that, I often get. Cause I’ll get like, Oh, I want to start a business. Which is great. I’m excited about it. I think the thing that I often find people doing and be like, Oh, I don’t want to tell people about my idea. I’m afraid someone’s going to steal it. And yes, there is certainly, probably another person in the world that has had some similar idea or might be excited about the idea that you have. However, the amount of effort and energy and resources that it takes to start a business. Tell everybody about your idea. Get everybody’s opinion. Because what’s going to happen is you’re going to refine that idea, and you’re going to find whatever, maybe the market is telling you or your friends are telling you all these things, right? It’s all like little nuggets of information that will ultimately get you to be able to provide the best service for folks or best product or best whatever, shirt. But I, I would encourage you not to like keep it in your head and sit on it because you’re afraid that someone else is going to come in and steal it.

Rocio Sanchez: It’s that kind of mentality that can hold people back from doing great things, you know, or could it even be like the hustling, the bootstrapping. I’m going to keep my cards close to my chest. Like, if there’s anything I’ve learned, especially working within this community and anytime I’m in this community, working with other folks, it’s, it’s always like, open-hearted and let’s support each other and let’s support each other in our business ideas. So that’s really, really helpful. Thank you so much for your insights. Where can people find Kirrin Finch?

Kelly Moffat: Yeah. So www.kirrinfinch.com. K I R R I N F I N C H. We’re on the social channels, and uh, that’s about it. Thanks so much for having me today.

Rocio Sanchez: Thank you so much. Have a great day. I’ll see you around. Okay?

Kelly Moffat: Take care. Bye.

Rocio Sanchez: Transition of Style is brought to you by FC Podcasts, a division of Fashion Consort. Learn more about how FC Podcasts can help you with podcasting, from strategy and creation to production and marketing at fcpodcasts.com. That’s fcpodcasts.com. Thank you FC Podcasts, for making Transition of Style possible.

Rocio Sanchez: Welcome back to Transition of Style. This is the case study portion of our episode, where I extract key business insights from our incredible guests. Let’s talk about Kelly Moffat today. Co-founder Kirrin Finch, a brand that creates menswear-inspired clothing for women, trans and non-binary folks. Here are three takeaways from our conversation.

Rocio Sanchez: Firstly, we talked about the importance of transferable skills. Kelly Moffat and her wife Laura, transitioned from careers in education and pharmaceutical marketing to founding a fashion brand. Despite having no formal background in fashion, they leveraged their existing skills to build Kirrin Finch. Kelly’s background in education helped in understanding the intricacies of research and structure, while Laura’s marketing experience was invaluable for brand positioning and market research. So, assess your current skills and how they can be applied to your new venture. Skills such as project management, communication, and research are often transferable across different industries. Leverage your existing knowledge and experience to gain a competitive edge in your new business.

Rocio Sanchez: Secondly, Let’s talk about the importance of a unique selling proposition, or USP . Kirrin Finch’s USP is its focus on creating well fitting menswear-inspired clothing for women, trans, and non-binary people. This niche market was underserved, and Kelly and Laura sought an opportunity to fill this gap. Their emphasis on fit, comfort, and style resonates deeply with their audience, making their brand stand out in a crowded market. What you can learn from this is to identify what makes your product or service unique, and ensure that this is communicated clearly to your audience. A strong USP can differentiate your brand and create a loyal customer base. Understand the specific needs of your target market and tailor your offerings to meet those needs effectively.

Rocio Sanchez: Lastly, let’s talk about fundraising versus bootstrapping. Kelly and Laura chose to bootstrap their business, starting with a Kickstarter campaign to fund their first production run. This approach allowed them to maintain control over their business decisions and grow at a manageable pace. They valued the gradual growth and incremental scaling, which helps them avoid the pressures and demands that come with external investment. So weigh the pros and cons of fundraising versus bootstrapping for your business. While external funding can provide rapid growth opportunities, it may also come with significant expectations and a loss of control. Bootstrapping, on the other hand, allows for more control but requires careful financial planning and resource management. Choose the approach that aligns best with your business goals and values.

Rocio Sanchez: Kelly Moffat’s journey with Kirrin Finch underscores the value of transferable skills, the necessity of a strong USP , and the strategic decision-making involved in choosing between fundraising and bootstrapping. By leveraging all of these things, Kelly and Laura have built a successful and impactful brand. This is what we can learn in our own entrepreneurial journeys. Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Please join me next time as I talk to Claire Holt, influencer and TikTok content creator, as we talk about masc lesbian fashion. Please follow us on Instagram at @TransitionofStyle, subscribe to our newsletter at transitionofstyle.com and subscribe to listen to the next episode anywhere you listen to podcasts. Thank you so much. I’ll see you next time.